Strange one, what would you do??

Right, Here's one for the legal eagles amongst us.
This is about an old pal of mine...some of you might remember him from the other site as "Bouncer".
Sent his license away because of a change of address (moved house 4 years ago and just getting round to it).
Paper part sent away with 10 points marked on it ( 7 and 3) still with at least 2 years on the 7 pointer to run.
License comes back with only 3 points ( sp30)..
Does this mean he now only have 3 points or will it still be recorded on some database that he has 10??
His initial instincts are...Yaaaayy but if he gets another sp 30 he could be off the road..Not that he intends going faster than the law dictates of course.

Dunno about you, but I struggle to remember about things like endorsements, unless I have a handy paper reference...

One way to find out may be to get an insurance quote with and without declaring your endorsement. If it's cheaper when you declare the endorsement then it's probably on the database. I'm basing this on a mate who's been keeping his murky 'history' from his car insurance companies for the past few years. He didn't realise he was paying double what we were and when he declared his convictions his premium went down.

He needs to get in touch with DVLA - I've spent years carrying out PNC licence checks for officers. If he gets stopped and they carry out a check if he's lucky his computer record will mirror his paper licence - if he's unlucky his paper licence will be wrong and his computer one will be right. There is an audit trail on the dvla computer which states when you got points - what for - how long they were valid etc. That record remains with you basically for life. sometimes a duplicate record is inadvertantly created - when it comes to light is married up.

If the points should still be valid then they are valid and will be recorded somewhere. The officer would automatically be told whats on the computer if he asks for a licence check. also if he gets caught speeding he'd have to hand the licence over at which point it would be found out. His best bet is to ring them and just say he thought his point hadn't expired can they confirm and if they come back and say thats right then he's ok.

But of course - like you say - your 'friend' would never speed

In that case, shouldn't the DVLA take responsibility for their errors? They are charged with producing legal documents, surely if they are incapable of accurately producing such documents they should bear that responsibility?

It's a shame the DVLA audit trail doesn't seem to capture people's driving entitlements. I know more than one person that has had to retake their motorcycle test because when they sent their licence off to be updated it came back without motorcycle entitlement and there was absolutely nothing they could do about it. I know one person who regained his entitlement only because he was able to produce documentation from a producer issued by the police days before he sent his licence away.

Still, I suppose as long as the DVLA can turn a tidy profit from selling our personal data commercially that doesn't really matter.

They are a bloody shower.

This "Bouncer" sounds like a bit of a wild one, maybe you shouldn't hang about with him...

I have also heard of people who photocopy their licenses before sending them to DVLA because there are more than a few instances of motorcycle entitlements dropping off and retests needed. And I'd go the honest route and check - be better than getting a surprise in the future!

Lee

That's what I did last time I changed address - from what I've read they seem to accept that, although I also got someone of repute to sign it as an accurate copy.

My last endorsement was hand written on my licence in biro

Thanks for the info Suzie, surely tho if it's a change of address and all computerized then all the details would be updated and printed onto the new license straight from the database records? or is it not as simple as that?
Anyway i am with krusty on this one tho..DVLA should be responsible for their errors...I am chasing the DVLA at the moment for a fine they are trying to impose on me for road tax default on a car i sold over 2 years ago.. They reckon they never received the tear off slip i sent them when i sold the car..They are not interested and now i'm fighting with a collections agency..i keep telling them if they want the money then come and try and find the car and they can take it away...lol..
My advice to Bouncer will be to plead ignorance if required and don't worry Lee i can keep him in check and within the law..

Krusty you're right but I don't work for the DVLA and i spent more than a little time trying to sort out some of their messes when i worked in PNC department.

Dave i'm with Lee - this bouncer - i dunno mate - sounds a bit of a liability if you ask me. going back to the dvla who knows how their mind works I was speaking to a mate the other day who passed their bike test last year having been driving for years and they were told that because they had a car licence the 2 year rule doesn't apply if they got the 6 points on the bike!!- just tell your mate to watch it though bearing in mind 'ignorance is no excuse' in the eyes of the law and in any event he could strictly speaking have got fined for failing to update them with his address i'd keep him on a very short leash

Ezzy's Mum! wrote:I was speaking to a mate the other day who passed their bike test last year having been driving for years and they were told that because they had a car licence the 2 year rule doesn't apply if they got the 6 points on the bike!!

Yeah the highway code says the same thing (near the bottom of the page [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ), although a couple of mates have been told the opposite from their test station's.

yep ... and i was told different by dvla !! (swansea and local office) and also several traffic officers! i've erred on the side of caution round the nice yellow boxes but only a month to go yay - that was 2 quick years maybe i'll actually start riding like i've learned something soon (if that makes sense!) ah well i'm getting there slowly lol (slow being the operative word )

Its shocking what these supposed experts tell you, i remember about 12 years ago looking into getting a 125cc, asked the police, the dvla and a local bike shop what i'd need to do licence wise and got 3 different answers!!

Whilst the DVLA really should be able to distinguish their arse from their elbow, it is not a given and IIRC when you get your licence back it asks you to check and verify the information, and tell them if anything's wrong. There's the get-out, right there. If you accept the licence you are effectively agreeing it is accurate and thus accepting responsibility for it.

As far as I know you can have points on your licence (bit of paper) going back for years.
If you ever moved address or sent it away they would remove entries older that 4 years old (although I think serious offences Drink Driving etc stay on for much longer).
Has anyone ever paid to get them removed.......I moved house to get rid of mine.
Having said that most SP's only last 3 years and expire (although they don't magically disappear from your bit of paper)

Probably better to err on the side of caution I suspect though and don't ride/drive like a Bouncer

Cheers
Rosco

On a related note, did you know the photo in your driver's licence card is only valid for 10 years..?

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tcatcarson wrote:On a related note, did you know the photo in your driver's licence card is only valid for 10 years..?

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Crikey...I think the photo I gave them was 10 years old when I sent them it (when I had hair!)

Rosco wrote:As far as I know you can have points on your licence (bit of paper) going back for years.
If you ever moved address or sent it away they would remove entries older that 4 years old (although I think serious offences Drink Driving etc stay on for much longer).
Has anyone ever paid to get them removed.......I moved house to get rid of mine.
Having said that most SP's only last 3 years and expire (although they don't magically disappear from your bit of paper)

SPs are valid for 3 and on your licence for 4 (so they remain on your licence a year after they expired basically) you can't have them removed before the 4 years is up. I don't know anyone that's paid to have theirs removed (ooer) and i refuse to - i was gutted as i had to go from the old paper licence (thats showing my age!) to a card one when i went to Aus and NZ so i could hire a car and it was at the 3 yrs 6 month stage of one lot of points so they were still on there when i got it back although i then passed my bike test so got them removed for free - still have one lot on them so they'll just have to stay until i either get more or move!!!!!!

Rosco wrote:

tcatcarson wrote:On a related note, did you know the photo in your driver's licence card is only valid for 10 years..?

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Crikey...I think the photo I gave them was 10 years old when I sent them it (when I had hair!)

You mean from when you were ten years old, then?

Never worth trying it on!! fail to disclose points etc to your insurance then think Fraudulent declaration to obtain insurance which can now be dealt with under the fraud act, Yep folk can now get arrested for it and end up with a criminal record and your insurance is voidable and post collision your insurance may pay out a third party but not you and then claim back from you under civil litigation what the insurers paid out to any third party.
You know when you ring for insurance all that " calls may be recorded for the prevention of!! training etc" well it is all recorded and the police gain access to those records on a daily basis for prosecutions and obtain statements from the insurers which are presented to the courts.

Me would suggest honesty is the best practice

cheers

trafman

Can back up Trafman on that one. I work for an insurance company and we are a bunch of gits. If we can avoid paying up, then we will. Vehicle claims are our largest outlay so we do all we can to find that little loophole that means we can avoid any payout. I work with a commercial insurance company, but the personal ones I'm sure will be the same

Up to you end of the day though!

tcat_unlucky_alf wrote:

Up to you end of the day though!

what he means is = tell your mate it's up to him

Sorry, yeah, I would suggest that to your friend <cough> <cough>... anyone got any throat sweets round here???